Spirit of Faire

topic posted Fri, April 4, 2008 - 3:27 PM by  Beverage Bab...
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 21:44:55 -0700
From: "Beverage Babe"
Subject: Re: Spirit of Faire



Please feel free to pass this on to those with a vested interest in this Faire.



Recently, Beverage Babe sent out an email to various parties regarding some issues that are happening currently with the new Director of the Beverage Department. While I agree with the points that Beverage Babe made, I think that it might have gotten a little personal (I understand it getting personal because of the way that people were treated).

I think the bigger issues are the changes and how they are being implemented. Though many of us have been accused in the past of being stuck in our ways, the Beverage Department has taken change in better stride that any other area of Faire. We pushed on through the changes moving from Agoura to Upper Devore to Lower Devore to Irwindale. We have dealt with ownership changes, Corporate Management changes, stand changes and many other changes and while we would worry briefly about the changes, we have been lucky to have Beverage Directors who worked with the Ale Stand Managers to explain, maneuver and make everyone feel these changes would work. Even though some failed, a strong leader will help you through change, not damage moral in the change. This is not the new leadership that we have seen.

One change which has been implemented by Kirsten is bringing in a large number of new crew members to supplant crew members who have worked faire for years. Why would experienced professionals be replaced by people who have never worked our floors? It has been said that many of the new crew have never worked in an Ale Stand, instead they have been in the front of a food booth, or back kitchen. While I do not disagree that this is hard work, it is not Beverage experience. Beverage has the highest customer expectation of any department outside of Entertainment. I have also worked at a food booth, as have others who are from the Beverage Department, we all know that heavy use of BFA is discouraged at food booths, acting with customers is limited and customers expect little besides getting their food from such a booth. But in the 46 years of the Southern California Faire customers have been entertained and amused while paying rather high prices for beverages. More times than I can count I have heard of customers going out of their way to a stand that they thought offered the best service. Does this acting come at a price to customer service and speed? Never! That is one of the first things a Beverage employee learns, how to entertain the crowds in a way that never slows the pace.


I understand it is important to save money and make the Beverage Department more profitable. Many of the changes that have been made were made under the auspices of "saving money". The problem is that none of these changes actually save money. Swapping out experienced crew with inexperienced crew does not save money (if fact it is more expensive since HR will be required to pay $7 on each of these new hires). The person making all of these changes, Kirsten, was hired with a full salary – replacing somebody who was performing the same task, as part of their other duties, for a mere pittance. The decision was also made to use poorly made logo cups, instead of the inexpensive cups which are available from the vendors (such as Pepsi and Budweiser). Another confounding change is the removal of all the Cashiers from the Ale Stands.

Cashiers have an important role, these people were never there as time savers or for anyone's ease they were there for the protection of the Faire's money. Physically they have protected the monies as well as offering accountability and a method of making sure that transactions were correctly handled. Removing these employees will in no way save the Faire any money. In fact, the servers must now share cash boxes with each other and must go in and out of the cashbox several hundred times a day. While I do not doubt the honesty of people, mistakes can be made – everybody is human. Cashiers, in the past, were the frontline against those mistakes. Kristen acknowledged that mistakes may be made but that a small amount of loss was "acceptable." To be honest, I was floored when I heard a new Director actually say that loss was acceptable; in all the years I have worked I have never heard that said.

Experienced crew members and Cashiers also offered another protection of watching the crowds. Almost every Cashier has at some point caught something that would have otherwise been impossible for a server to see. Many times these activities were illegal and if they had not been caught could have brought trouble to the Faire. Irwindale, as well as the County Parks, have been watching this Faire to make sure that we follow the rules. How does removing experienced and trained employees from their positions for those with minimal training make sure that they do not break the law? The Police and Sheriffs do not turn a blind eye to "mistakes" or "inexperience" when it comes to serving alcohol to minors, those who are intoxicated or drunk driving. Many of those who were replaced had State training in the laws and expectations of handling alcohol within the State, do the new employees? How are they going to handle the situation if they do mishandle a situation that leads them to being fined or even the Faire losing its alcohol license? This is the type of thing that makes experienced professionals so important to this department. We might make it look like fun and games but there is a seriousness behind the job that many will never see from the front.

I am not bitter about the situation I am saddened by it. I worry about the effects this will take on department as well as the Faire. I do have a job, I am willing to work with the changes but if I see them causing the inner destruction of the Faire I will not sit around and be quiet. I know that the changes will continue unabated no matter what I say but as I learned from the movements in the 60's "If you stand for nothing you will fall for anything" I stand for this Faire and the unique experience and family that it has created for myself, my friends and most importantly the customers who make all of it happen. If the changes work so be it, but if not I think it is going to be a hard schism to mend not only between the Faire and past employees but also the customers we will let down. This department has been there for the Faire for so long it is so sad to see the Faire not there for us when we need them.

I dream of a Phoenix rising from these ashes,

Phoenix Faire
posted by:
Beverage Babe II
Los Angeles
  • Re: Spirit of Faire

    Fri, April 4, 2008 - 4:34 PM
    No cashiers at a faire that size? Good luck to you my friends. Customers will have to wait longer, books will likely be out of balance... It's OK at a small ale stand like a wine garden or something where there's only one or two servers but not at a stand where you need 10 servers on the floor and the line is 30 deep. Yipe!
    • Re: Spirit of Faire

      Fri, April 4, 2008 - 5:14 PM
      Yipe indeedy.
      Sad. So very sad. : (
      Best of luck to the veteran servers.
      What a mess...
      *sigh*
      • Re: Spirit of Faire

        Fri, April 4, 2008 - 7:31 PM
        I agree!!!! I feel much sadness about this whole turn of events...My heart is completely out there for those that I have spent the last many years with who still there and especially for those who are not...Kick some ass, my friends!!!! Show them what a REAL Alestand is like....Just MAYBE they will learn!!!
  • Re: Spirit of Faire

    Fri, April 4, 2008 - 8:03 PM
    I wish I could write such a calm letter. I have to say I am very sad and hurt about the changes and more so since sadly I was one of those not invited back. After 11 years I will miss this experience, its to bad it all had to go down so ugly in the end.

    I will miss so many of you!
  • Re: Spirit of Faire

    Sat, April 5, 2008 - 8:40 AM
    This is so very strange.

    Last night I was not up late gathering and packing. My livingroom was not stacked with the toolbox, office supplies, shade structure, Gatorade, snacks and all of the other stuff required to keep an Ale Stand going.

    Today for the first time in 17 years it is opening day and I did not get up at stupid o’clock in the morning and I did not rush around to pack the car to be on the road by 6:15 am.

    Why am I not there? Because I have a “negative attitude”. Because on hiring day I actually said to the new Beverage Director “I am supposed to replace a server with over 10 years experience with one of your friends?”.



    - - I also received the "Spirit " email. This second message is considerably gentler than the first , much more suitable for public viewing.

    Rock on Beverage Babe !
    • Re: Spirit of Faire

      Sun, April 6, 2008 - 4:39 PM

      Wow. I've never worked at an Ale Stand, but I'm *longtime* retail cashier and experienced (30+ years) "boothie". BBII is very much spot on in her assessment. These changes are not going to be for the better. I, too, am floored by the fact that the new 'Director' said "...a small amount of loss was "acceptable." ". Excuse me? Since when?? What do they consider a "small amount"?? At my current job, if I'm off by $2. or more, I get in BIG trouble.
      *shaking head sadly side to side* This does not bode well for Faire.

      Much love and many hugs go out to those wonderful experienced folks who were replaced.
      • Re: Spirit of Faire

        Mon, April 7, 2008 - 11:06 AM
        So! First weekend is over! How did the ale stands do down there with the changes? Inquiring minds and all that....
        • Re: Spirit of Faire

          Mon, April 7, 2008 - 12:08 PM
          Damn, Kurt beat me to it. I wanna know too! Us from the Northern contingent had fun gossiping about it over the weekend!
        • Re: Spirit of Faire

          Mon, April 7, 2008 - 5:56 PM
          Well...it was...different, to say the least. I'm at the White Hart (Ale 2), and I think we got out with the least amount of damage to our crew, with no new additions (yet). The cashier situation was a little weird at first, but since about half of our servers are former cashiers, the adjustment was a little easier. We all worked longer hours (about 4 each day), but it was nice to be busy again.

          Other stands had a much more difficult time, with all the cuts and training new folks, but I'll let them speak to that.

          To say the least, there are many kinks that need to be worked out, and our managers are taking our suggestions and comments seriously. We all have hope that next week will be much smoother.

          We were happy to see our returning family again, and it goes without saying that those who weren't asked back were absolutely missed. It was nice to see those who came out to visit, but it wasn't the same on the floor without them. Their energy is truly irreplaceable.
          • Re: Spirit of Faire

            Mon, April 7, 2008 - 7:06 PM
            I wonder what the prerequisite was for not being asked back...

            I worked at Ale 2 for years. Waaaay back. Bill Duncan was the manager. Is he still?

            I agree on the ease of being able to cook the books now without cashiers. Me and a few other of us Northern managers were at a party this weekend and boy did the opinions fly!
  • Re: Spirit of Faire

    Mon, April 7, 2008 - 6:35 PM
    This is so lame. I just hate to see the Faire under the thumb of those REC assholes and their bottomfeeders...

    And I gotta say, my first reaction on reading about the elimination of cashiers is that this is going to make embezzlement and book-cooking MUCH easier for someone. 'A small amont of loss is "acceptable" ' indeed...if there's losses, I doubt much of it will be happening in the ale stands.
    • Cooking the Books

      Tue, April 8, 2008 - 11:13 AM
      Not yet, the finance department still has control of accounting and she has control of the sales records, for now. God forbid she talk them into letting her do both. If 'A small amount of loss is acceptable' then why would such a reprimand be necessary for giving lemonade and soda to their hard working employees? A much smaller and quite needed loss.
  • the dirt

    Tue, April 8, 2008 - 8:41 AM
    - No more free sodas for maintenance crew (the great guys that pickup the trash)
    - A manager got reprimanded for giving lemonade to a small group of street performers
    - Six out of seven new hires were sent to Ale 3, two quit on Sunday.
    - New expensive cups - the sleeves do not have the same number of cups meaning that all cups in every sleeve in every case must be counted (great way to save on labor costs !)


    note to my fellow beverage workers - if you want your voice heard but are afraid of being fired, send you thoughts to me and I'll post them.
    • Re: the dirt

      Tue, April 8, 2008 - 1:03 PM
      I'd say go ahead say something and risk getting fired. Under the circumstances how fun could this really be?
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            • Re: the dirt

              Tue, April 8, 2008 - 3:47 PM
              Well, as a bartender from the "REAL" world for the past 20 something years, I have always been impressed by the men and women of the Beverage Dept..... Impressed by their hard work, great attitudes, and honesty....And over the 15 or so years that I have worked inBev. (8 as a manager), I have experienced very little "chaff", as you put it! Certainly nothing that I think would necessitate the purging that the alestands recently went through....Apparently having an opinion about things means one is lazy and slow?As I said before, it makes me sad....
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                • Re: the dirt

                  Tue, April 8, 2008 - 4:19 PM
                  I wasn't saying "opinion makes you lazy", Linda...I was just refering to the fact that quite a few of the "chaff", so to speak, were hard workers who had opinions and were volcal about them....And I didn't say that there weren't any "non-operative employees" , either...ALL departments have those...I was just saying that a LOT of good hard working folk got a raw deal...That's all....Not just the bad ones...
                • Break even to survive

                  Tue, April 8, 2008 - 4:48 PM
                  Just a quickie on this. What they are doing to the department will do nothing for improving their 'bottom line'. Their bottom dropped when we lost the revenues from camping and parking. If they want their bottom back then they better find a new spot where we can have camping and where the $8.00 the customer pays to park their car comes to us and not to someone else.
                • Re: the dirt

                  Tue, April 8, 2008 - 6:18 PM
                  I get the feeling if the shoe is on the other foot your comments about "purging" might not be so cavalier...
            • Re: the dirt

              Tue, April 8, 2008 - 4:27 PM
              Ah, civility, let's chat. 4 years? When was this? Where was this? Small faires and wine gardens don't count as they cannot compare to our stands here. I have been a bartender and I agree with your comment, if that was the only reason we are here, but it's not. We are here for entertainment as much as we are here to serve beverages. 'Mayhap' that is why our new department head figured just anybody could do it, like her friends.

              Inexperienced friends? I speak of Kirsten's friends and where were you eyes this weekend? I've seen many first year newbies that could at least dress themselves. Blue surgical scrubs, with pockets no less, tennis shoes, t-shirts showing under their shirt and street pants? Not to mention I've seen them work, serving the customer by the rim of the cup, not washing their hands after using the privy then serving. Shall I go on?

              "Chaff" interesting word, to be honest I had to look it up, well done. Wasted people wasting space and time. I saw no less than 4 of those all leaning on the counter watching the people walk by at ale 3. You have obviously been out of beverage far too long to have a grip on the reality of today. Beverage contained (until recently) only hard working, butt busting crew, it was a 'No Chaff' zone.

              Free ride? you name me one person from any of the ale stands (besides 3) that is not working their butt off when out on that floor. Two of the newbies quit, apparently they couldn't cut it.

              Thank you for the opportunity to chat. To be honest as you say, it's difficult to judge or even comment on something when you're on the outside looking in. All you (as an outsider) are hearing is one sided scuttlebutt from those in command. However we on the inside KNOW whats going on.

              Once again, thank you for this time to chat.
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                • Yes, I hide my identity

                  Tue, April 8, 2008 - 5:17 PM
                  'Yes, I hide my identity to those who would assault me for being honest.' I find this statement very interesting in that your name is above your picture next to the post. So unless you are not Linda Ballard aka Butterfly Biggins and she is letting you use her identity to express your opinion then you are more than just afraid of being assaulted. You are a coward and should be ashamed for putting a friend of OURS in such a position.

                  And their most likely would be no assaults just strong disagreements like this.
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                    • Re: Yes, I hide my identity

                      Tue, April 8, 2008 - 6:10 PM
                      ok, that's just fucked up. I keep my opinions civil as strong as they may be, as i work with many of you. But, you steal someone's account and then make inflammatory statements on their behalf. Cute.

                      who are you, so that i can make sure i never hire you?
                      • Re: Yes, I hide my identity

                        Tue, April 8, 2008 - 6:22 PM
                        Hey, maybe it's Kirsten...
                        • Re: Yes, I hide my identity

                          Tue, April 8, 2008 - 6:29 PM
                          whoever it is, hacking someone else's account is actually a crime. A real crime. Associated with real jail time. to be a bit more specific...

                          unauthorized use of a computer system to impersonate another person is punishable by up to 20 years, It's considered identity theft. Think about that for a moment. you felt strongly enough about this that you committed a felony. How sad is that?
                      • Re: Yes, I hide my identity

                        Thu, April 24, 2008 - 8:52 AM
                        For someone with the word Chaos in there name you sure wine about the law alot...Stick to the issues, obviously people have been fired, alot of good people, Kudos to you Beverage Babe, I,m sure she/he will be heartbroken to know that she can't work for you.......You seem so nice and all...........Whats fucked up is the fact that someone would have to worry about their job just because of their opinion.....burns your biscuits dose'nt it? Accusing people of stealing just because you disagree with them...is not cute it is as weak as your argument......My names Freeway by the way, in case you ever want to not hire me.................
                    • Re: Yes, I hide my identity

                      Tue, April 8, 2008 - 7:04 PM
                      What? No snappy retort to you being a bottom feeding scum sucking thief? Now I know you are lying about being in beverage. We don't tolerate your kind in beverage.
        • Re: the dirt

          Tue, April 8, 2008 - 3:25 PM
          Excuse me, what is your affiliation? I don't recall you working for the beverage department. If you actually knew of what you speak then you would know that things did not go swimmingly well. We had no stand around chaff, as you call it, until our new department head decided to hire her inexperienced friends to replace experienced long time crew. Had you had any experience working in an ale stand then you know there is no such thing as a free ride. Try being my shoes for just half a day and you would see what I mean.

          "someone who is trying to make a company WORK without assistance!"

          Again, if you had any idea of what you were talking about, we are not a 'company' but a depart there of and it has WORKED very well until now.
          • Re: the dirt

            Tue, April 8, 2008 - 4:23 PM
            The ale stands have always been a coveted place to work at faire for tens of years. Boothies and actors alike always ask how they can get a job at one. This is because back in the old days, before some folks ever set foot at faire (including me) a few dedicated people expended quite a bit of energy and creativity designing the stands to be a well-oiled machines that would operate under the duress constant of large crowds (i.e. Ale 5, Agoura). Dissecting the machine and putting it back together minus some of it's parts when it was has always shown to be a success is foolish. Yes, there is nothing wrong with fine tuning it and making it better but why destroy it? We've been serving the masses with very little issues just fine thank you very much!

            As a 16 year veteran of working for beverage departments in a variety of positions including management for a multitude of faires all around California I have run into very little "stand around chaff". Those who couldn't deal with the amount of work didn't come back the next year. Newbies were hired as jobs opened up. It is fine to add some new blood to the mix but it is idiotic to fire people who have proven to be up to the task and replace them with others who may do well or to dispense of certain key positions such as the cashiers who provide a very valuable service for not only the other employees in the stand but to the company itself. An ale stand is a wheel and each of us is a cog. You take one away and your wheel may not work so well.
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              • Re: the dirt

                Tue, April 8, 2008 - 6:50 PM
                And now, how are we supposed to believe you?
                I think the real Linda should unsub and start fresh with a new profile...
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                • Re: the dirt

                  Tue, April 8, 2008 - 6:55 PM
                  the TOU should be stepping in shortly to resolve this if it was actually a case of a stolen password.
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                    Re: the dirt

                    Tue, April 8, 2008 - 7:03 PM
                    I agree, Chris.
                    TOU and abuse should be notified.
                    "Linda" - here's the thing, the only way to regain any sort of trust/credibility is for you to unsub and start fresh. New profile, new password. Think of it as an opportunity to create a whole new you!
                    • Re: the dirt

                      Tue, April 8, 2008 - 7:19 PM
                      (pulp fiction)
                      There's a passage I got memorized. Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. I been sayin' that shit for years. And if you ever heard it, it meant your ass. I never really questioned what it meant. I thought it was just a cold-blooded thing to say to a motherfucker before you popped a cap in his ass. But I saw some shit this mornin' made me think twice. Now I'm thinkin': it could mean you're the evil man. And I'm the righteous man. And Mr. 9mm here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. Or it could be you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish. I'd like that. But that shit ain't the truth. The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd.
                      (/pulp fiction)

                      This should be a reminder to us all how fragile a virtual identity can be. Once it's been abused, it's a candy wrapper blowing in the wind. Something that once held value, but now is discarded and useless. Protect your friggin passwords, and understand that if you don't, someone can say something on your behalf that will damage your relationships with those close to you. Damage they you will half to live with, and trust you will have to regain.

                      Linda, i don't know you, but... time to start over. Be more careful next time.
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              • Re: the dirt

                Tue, April 8, 2008 - 7:11 PM
                This is the Linda I know and LOVE! Yes you owe me an ale! But do change your ID for this group at least and come back.
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              • Re: the dirt

                Tue, April 8, 2008 - 7:31 PM
                I'm so not buying it. The writing style is way too similar and the use of certain jargon is a little to intimate to faire patricipants for someone who is just a paytron.

                A little creepy, I have to say.
                • Re: the dirt

                  Tue, April 8, 2008 - 7:42 PM
                  well, i look at it this way..

                  Either she jumped in over her head, and learned her lesson the hard way, or it happened as she said. Either way, the point has been made.
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                    Re: the dirt

                    Tue, April 8, 2008 - 7:56 PM
                    There was also a large difference between the wine garden the first year in Irwindale and a regular ale stand. I believe that was staffed by Biggins Family/guild members. That was the area where Linda worked for beverage. Since Biggins held a non profit standing it was a way to keep the wine garden and cut costs since the wine and staffing issues made it prohibitive in the move from Devore.

                    Also no wines this year. Suggesting to patrons to survey that as an issue when they are unhappy at the menu. Perhaps no wine is better than the bad stuff we had the last couple of years. It is all about change and how to find ways around the obstacles. I think the saying "May we live in interesting times" applies.
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